interesting info that has come to me from a reader

INTERESTING HISTORICAL INFORMATION

The following 3 emails came to me from the same person last night after he read my article.

Hi Jerry,

You comment that "back in the 1980s" Yvon Chouinard had a statement in his catalog about Goretex not working. As a matter of fact Chouinard was publically denouncing Goretex as long ago as the late 60s/early 70s.

During that timeframe I was actively climbing and I believed what he was preaching about Goretex being a fraud. He sold his own WP product line (can't recall if his proprietary material even had a name). The material was an outer layer of WP nylon with a very thin layer (about 1/16") of foam laminated to the nylon outer and there was an inner layer of some gauzy super-light material bonded to the foam layer, so the gauzy layer was "the inside" of the jacket. His claim was the foam prevented condensation by putting a layer between the outside temperature and the body heat inside.

I bought one of his cagoules and used it for years, including taking it on an Everest trek in 1972. It worked as advertised (of course you sweated in it during high exertion.). I ended up giving it to a sherpa at the end of the trek because it reeked of woodsmoke. All along the trek the sherpas built charcoal fires every night. The foam layer of the cagoule absorbed all that smoke and no amount of washing could get the smell out.

I hope you're right that Patagonia is moving away from Goretex. Cheers, John

Jerry,

What I know is that my Everest trek was in 1972, and I had the Chouinard cagoule with me on the trip. I bought the Chouinard product (Chouinard's company was then named "The Great Pacific Ironworks" and their main product line was forged pitons. ice axes, and other mountaineering "iron mongery.") because Chouinard convinced me that his laminated material was better than what Gore was selling. I can't swear that Gore was using the term "Goretex" at that time. What I do recall was the recurring complaint of Gore users that when the garment got dirty and greasy (unavoidable when backpack camping/climbing), it wetted out and no longer was water proof.

Jerry,

It looks like Gore invented (more correctly, discovered by accident) Goretex in 1969 (some guy in New Zealand and a Japanese company also, independently invented the same process for expanding PTFE about the same time, but Gore was the one who went public with it in the US). Gore finally got their patent in 1976. They lost the patent, however, in 1990 to the company that owned the original Japanese process.

Reading John’s emails which contain historical information if correct and I have no reason to disbelieve him is pretty damning of the gore product.

As for Yvon’s comment about preventing condensation is blatantly wrong, maybe that is one reason why the product was discontinued. A British company Peter Storm made foul weather gear using a very thin vinyl laminated to a very thin foam in the 60’s and later. I personally never used it during my sailing days but it did sell well and probably worked to keep rain and spray off of you but it also kept your sweat inside the garment. Maybe that is where Yvon got the idea for his product.

Do you think that rei and bean and a host of more retailers will black ball Patagonia if as I think will happen the waterproof breathable garments will eventually stay on the racks in stores as more and more people learn that the stuff really doesn’t work as advertised and they will buy basically the same garment for half the price and maybe more and more will buy the light weight Lamilite insulated garments I make that do work.

Will gore step forward and dispute what John has stated about the Japanese company being first to patent the manufacture of expanding PTFE material. What if all or most of what John has reported is true, the plot thickens about the true inventors.

All I know is that all actors involved with waterproof breathable so called materials are disingenuous.