response to stream fishing

INTERESTING RESPONSE TO THE STREAM FISHING COMMENTARY

Wiggy’s,

FYI, I have never owned any Gore-Tex garment that remained water proof and was breathable. Yes it would shed water in the beginning, but with regular use (not abraded) water would eventually pass through as if it never was water proof. My wife’s Gore-Tex jacket did retain its water proof longer due to light use. I thought it was supposed to be a fabric technology and not a coating, but either way, it apparently breaks down with use. Based on the cost I was better off with wool or a treated fabric (re-coat) or just go with “plastic”. As for breathability, Gore-Tex (if it actually works) can’t keep up with an active outdoor endeavor. It worked best in fairly static fishing conditions with little moisture build up, which I normally control by removing layers of clothing or use the zipper to let air in and moisture out. Many other vendors have marketed similar products with similar claims so, if they don’t work and nobody notices does that mean we have become fair weather outdoorsman? I personally enjoy going hunting in bad weather, but that is me and too few others…

Dave, NH

This response is a telltale of the experiences of I believe every person who has ever purchased a garment made with Gore-Tex or any other similarly advertised material. In the late 1970’s I have been told by a glove manufacture who had his design studio in Aspen and was working with the Gore-Tex material for the U.S Army the testing of insulated garments during the winter demonstrated what happened with Gore-Tex shell garments. They retained the moisture against the interior of the shell fabric which was Gore-Tex laminated. However, for some reason this concept was adopted and now the military uses both Gore-Tex and eVent (same ptfe film as the Gore product as far as I know) in garments and bivi bags. I agree that it is good for bivi bags so long as you do not completely close it up. If you do it will be the same as being in a plastic bag. What you breathe out carbon dioxide will be retained in the bivi bag versus having it open so there is a swap of the carbon dioxide with normal air to breath.

Dave’s experience also tells us why Gore is working diligently to sell water repellent treatments; obviously because the water repellency that was applied to the fabric after the ptfe film has been laminated to it breaks down just like it does on fabrics that are not laminated to any film.

From my perspective the actions being taken by Gore to sell a product for profit water repellent is an admission that the water-proof breathable” concept is a failure. If it did not fail they would not have to move into the business of making water repellent chemical treatments, would they!

I am not against them wanting to sell water repellency chemicals but I do think they should say they are doing it because their Gore-Tex product is a failure.Since that is the case they can capitalize on selling the water repellency to people who purchased garments made with similar components that will also have the same problem, water repellency break down. It would be a good business.The only garments that do not need renewed water repellency are those sold by Columbia since they are putting the film on the outside of the garment, so it is basically like a vinyl exterior.

Can you imagine how companies like The North Face and other manufacturers would react to hundreds of retailers coming back to them with garments the do not perform as advertised. Then of course these companies would have recourse to go back to Gore and their competitors for compensation for the returned garments. The trickle down or rather the flood down effect would be devastating to all parties concerned. It might even put some of them out of business due to the losses incurred.

Once I went to the government agency that handles false advertising claims and asked them about investigating, it was a joke.

A NEW INSULATION

There is a company in California known as Allied Feather and Down.They have been since 1987. I can only guess they are hitting the panic button because they will shortly offer to manufacturers of down products a new insulating material that will and I quote; “Allied created Loftech to bridge the gap between lighter-weight synthetic filled products and a warmer synthetic lofty garment. Another application is extreme weather sleeping bags, where synthetic insulation is preferable to down for water resistance and durability.” The next sentence gave me pause since the Allied representative used a word that was new to me “scalable”. I quote;” According to Belcher (the representative), while down has the uncanny ability to be extremely scalable (emphasis mine), a hypothetically blow-able synthetic could be used in a wide range of baffles, creating a new type of product line” I had to look up scalable to see how it applied in the sentence. He is saying if one is scaling a mountain the down bag is very light so in his mind it is uncanny. However, down has an unmatched uncanny ability to absorb moisture which makes it a detriment to use in the outdoors climbing a mountain or otherwise. Why he says “hypothetically blow-able tells me he lacks the knowledge of the fact that some companies have been blowing polyester for years so it is not hypothetical. This sentence suggests to me that his company will more than likely want to sell this polyester fiber to customers who already blow down. In order to make a sleeping bag or jacket blowing a synthetic is a waste because the bag or garment has to be constructed just like any down product. Why put a synthetic in the shell at a cost of say $1.50per pound versus a cheap down at $15.00 a pound. The down product is more sale-able.

First it was water repellent treated down, and then it was a down and polyester blend and now a blow-able down. I give them credit for thinking of ways to compete with continuous filament known as Lamilite and Climashield. However, I do expect that whatever they do the products will fail to perform, but someone will not do the research and will ultimately waste their money on another “pie in the sky” product.

HOW ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES FUNCTION WITH RESPECT TO THE SLEEPING BAGS THEY SELL

I just read in the preview of some products from the SNEWS online publication that the Big Agnes Company will be showing 12 new model bags. When I see something like this I wonder why it is necessary. Apparently the bags that they made in the past year or two did not sell well because they probably didn’t perform well. A sleeping bag is a utilitarian product. Once you make one for a specific temperature range and it actually works why change to a new product.

This company is not alone in doing things this way they all do it. Supposedly new fabrics, definitely new colors as if that will make the bag better. New patterns for shapes and how about the most successful shape ever, a cocoon.

I recall back in the 1950’s and 60’s the auto companies made cars with planned obsolescence. In that manner people would want a new car every two years. Maybe they are of that frame of mind. For me when someone calls and says he has a bag for 15 years and it is still performing as it did 15 years earlier it warms my heart. That person has probably been responsible for a dozen orders or possibly more which I am grateful for. Sometimes change is not good.